requesting feedback

[bumpaguv]

In a recent game as White against Fritz 11, in "sparring" mode, the following occurred: 1. d4, d5; 2. Nf3, Nf6; 3. e3, e6; 4. Bd3, c5; 5. b3, Ne4?! I couldn't recall seeing any reference in any book to an early occupation of e4 by Black, but after a bit of thought I replied 6. c4. The game continued 6...Nc6; 7. O-O, cxd4; 8. exd4, Bb4; 9. Bb2, O-O; 10. a3, Be7. I think that White is better. Any comments or thoughts on this variation?

[Rudel]

I remember seeing that in your game. This is an interesting question.

Normally Black cannot do an early occupation of e4 until he has gotten ...Bb7 in (since there is normally a N/d2 and a B/d3 to stop it). And the antidote in those lines typically involves pressure with Bb5 + Ne5.

However, with the Bishop back on f8 that would not work so well. I'll take a look further at this and get back to you.

[bkahuna]

Rudel Wrote:I remember seeing that in your game. This is an interesting question.

Normally Black cannot do an early occupation of e4 until he has gotten ...Bb7 in (since there is normally a N/d2 and a B/d3 to stop it). And the antidote in those lines typically involves pressure with Bb5 + Ne5.

However, with the Bishop back on f8 that would not work so well. I'll take a look further at this and get back to you.

I think the answer to this is for White to quickly delvelop and play c4 later. For example if 6.0-0,Be7 7.Bb2,0-0 8.Nbd2,f5 9.c4 gives White a favorable position since Black cannot "stonewall" the center with his c pawn on c5.

Best-John Dowling (bkahuna)

[Rudel]

bumpaguv Wrote:In a recent game as White against Fritz 11, in "sparring" mode, the following occurred: 1. d4, d5; 2. Nf3, Nf6; 3. e3, e6; 4. Bd3, c5; 5. b3, Ne4?! I couldn't recall seeing any reference in any book to an early occupation of e4 by Black, but after a bit of thought I replied 6. c4. The game continued 6...Nc6; 7. O-O, cxd4; 8. exd4, Bb4; 9. Bb2, O-O; 10. a3, Be7. I think that White is better. Any comments or thoughts on this variation?

John has the right of it.

The most important thing to know is that Black cannot really create a stone-wall setup due to a number of factors. In particular, playing ...f5 can generally be met with Ne5 with the threat of Qh5. To deal with this, Black will normally have to play Be7 to at least be one step closer to castling, but that move does nothing to increase defense of the central pawns [which his early Ne4 has already weakened].

So, in general if Black attempts to quickly get a stonewall, THAT is when you must look for a tactical refutation..either due to Black's lack of king-safety or fragility of whatever pawns happen to be in the center.

John, under what conditions do you think White should play for Ne5+f3 in this position?

[bkahuna]

Rudel Wrote:

bumpaguv Wrote:In a recent game as White against Fritz 11, in "sparring" mode, the following occurred: 1. d4, d5; 2. Nf3, Nf6; 3. e3, e6; 4. Bd3, c5; 5. b3, Ne4?! I couldn't recall seeing any reference in any book to an early occupation of e4 by Black, but after a bit of thought I replied 6. c4. The game continued 6...Nc6; 7. O-O, cxd4; 8. exd4, Bb4; 9. Bb2, O-O; 10. a3, Be7. I think that White is better. Any comments or thoughts on this variation?

John has the right of it.

The most important thing to know is that Black cannot really create a stone-wall setup due to a number of factors. In particular, playing ...f5 can generally be met with Ne5 with the threat of Qh5. To deal with this, Black will normally have to play Be7 to at least be one step closer to castling, but that move does nothing to increase defense of the central pawns [which his early Ne4 has already weakened].

So, in general if Black attempts to quickly get a stonewall, THAT is when you must look for a tactical refutation..either due to Black's lack of king-safety or fragility of whatever pawns happen to be in the center.

John, under what conditions do you think White should play for Ne5+f3 in this position?

Dave- Actually I don't think the N on f3 will end up on e5 (at least not early on). There are two reasons for this. The first is that as long as Black has an option of trading on e5, White will probably not gain any advantage by putting his N on e5 early on as a trade on that square kills any advantage for him. The second and more complicated reason is that the real battle will take place I believe on the c4/c5/d4/d5 squares. This is where the tension is and this is where the N on f3 will be needed. I think this can be seen from the examples below. Black must decide where to put his QN after 1.d4,d5 2.Nf3,Nf6 3.e3,e6 4.Bd3,c5 5.b3,Ne4 6.0-0,Be7 7.Bb2,0-0 8.Nbd2,f5 9.c4
With 9.___,Nbd7 I had a hard time finding a good plan for White. But I think 10.Bc2 offers White something after say 10.___,b6 11.dc5,Ndc5 12.b4,Na6 13.a3. Now in this position the KN stands ready to meet Nd2 with Nd2 keeping the c4 square under control.
With 9.___,Nc6 I think White has to just keep developing (on the right squares!) and then break in the center (at the right time!). For example: 10.Qe2,b6 11.Rfd1,Bb7 12.cd5,ed5 13.dc5,Nc5 14.Bb5 and again I think White keeps an edge with his KN focused on d4. Black may have improvements of course, but I think however it plays out, the e5 square will not be the key square for the KN early on.

[Rudel]

bkahuna Wrote:Dave- Actually I don't think the N on f3 will end up on e5 (at least not early on). There are two reasons for this. The first is that as long as Black has an option of trading on e5, White will probably not gain any advantage by putting his N on e5 early on as a trade on that square kills any advantage for him. The second and more complicated reason is that the real battle will take place I believe on the c4/c5/d4/d5 squares. This is where the tension is and this is where the N on f3 will be needed. I think this can be seen from the examples below. Black must decide where to put his QN after 1.d4,d5 2.Nf3,Nf6 3.e3,e6 4.Bd3,c5 5.b3,Ne4 6.0-0,Be7 7.Bb2,0-0 8.Nbd2,f5 9.c4
With 9.___,Nbd7 I had a hard time finding a good plan for White. But I think 10.Bc2 offers White something after say 10.___,b6 11.dc5,Ndc5 12.b4,Na6 13.a3. Now in this position the KN stands ready to meet Nd2 with Nd2 keeping the c4 square under control.
With 9.___,Nc6 I think White has to just keep developing (on the right squares!) and then break in the center (at the right time!). For example: 10.Qe2,b6 11.Rfd1,Bb7 12.cd5,ed5 13.dc5,Nc5 14.Bb5 and again I think White keeps an edge with his KN focused on d4. Black may have improvements of course, but I think however it plays out, the e5 square will not be the key square for the KN early on.

If we are going with the idea of trying to extract an advantage by punishing Black for essentially wasting 2 moves [with respect to tension on c4,c5,d4,d5], then I'm thinking an earlier c4 is really what's called for. That move hits where Black is most vulnerable because:
i) dxc4 is clearly impossible before ....f5
ii) We are attacking the pawn that the knight has orphaned
iii) We are attacking the only defender of the knight.

[I think the critical point is that if we let Black play ...f5, then "i" is no longer true.]

For example, after 1.d4,d5 2.Nf3,Nf6 3.e3,e6 4.Bd3,c5 5.b3,Ne4 6.0-0,Be7 7.Bb2,0-0 I think White should immediately go with 8.c4
[In fact, for repertoire building, it might make more sense to play this on move 7...but holding off gives Black an opportunity to try something stupid.]

After 8.c4:

8...cxd4 9.cxd5! looks to give Black nothing but trouble:

9...exd5 10.Nxd4 must be good for White
9...Qxd5 10.Nxd4 with Nc3 to follow has to make Black uncomfortable
9...Nc5!? 10.Nxd4 Nxd3 11.Qxd3 Qxd5 12.Ba3! Bxa3 13.Nxa3, and 3 of White's pieces eye the b5 square at a time when Black cannot afford to play a6.

If instead 8...Nc6 then 9.Nc3 should be good for White because Black cannot use the stonewall to defend the Knight [9...f5?! 10.cxd5 exd5? 11.Nxd5 Qxd5?? 12.Bc4] Instead Black will have to exchange off the knight on c3 anyway and should be left both behind in development and probably with an isolated d-pawn.