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Setup vs ...g6 (KID or Grunfeld)
02-03-2010, 02:05 AM
Post: #11
RE: Setup vs ...g6 (KID or Grunfeld)
(10-27-2008 09:30 PM)soldner Wrote:  Great games! Thanks, Rookpawn!

Rookpawn Wrote:Here's a couple more games that Norowitz has played with top opponents including Gata Kamsky!

[Event "New York Masters 110th"]
[Site "New York"]
[Date "2004.07.20"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Norowitz, Yaacov"]
[Black "Kamsky, Gata"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A48"]
[BlackElo "2717"]
[PlyCount "110"]
[EventDate "2004.07.20"]
[EventType "swiss (rapid)"]
[EventRounds "4"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2004.09.01"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. Be2 O-O 5. O-O c5 6. b3 cxd4 7. Nxd4 d5 8. Bb2
Qc7 9. c4 dxc4 10. Nb5 Qb6 11. Bxc4 Nc6 12. N1c3 Bg4 13. Na4 Qa5 14. f3 Bc8 15.
Qe2 Ne8 16. Bxg7 Nxg7 17. Qe1 Rd8 18. Qxa5 Nxa5 19. Rfd1 Bd7 20. Nc5 Be8 21.
Be2 Rdc8 22. Rac1 a6 23. Na3 Rc7 24. Nd3 Nc6 25. Nc4 Nf5 26. Kf2 h5 27. Nb6 Rd8
28. Nf4 Rxd1 29. Rxd1 e6 30. Bd3 Nfe7 31. Rd2 Kg7 32. Be4 h4 33. g3 hxg3+ 34.
hxg3 Kf6 35. a3 Ne5 36. b4 Bb5 37. Nd3 Bxd3 38. Bxd3 Nxd3+ 39. Rxd3 Rc2+ 40.
Ke1 Nc6 41. Nd7+ Kf5 42. e4+ Kg5 43. Nc5 a5 44. Nxb7 axb4 45. axb4 Nxb4 46. Rd2
Rc3 47. Ke2 Nc6 48. Nd6 e5 49. Nxf7+ Kf6 50. Nd6 Nd4+ 51. Kf1 Nxf3 52. Rf2 Ke6
53. Nb5 Rc1+ 54. Ke2 Ng5 55. Kd2 Rc5 0-1

[Event "New York Masters 109th"]
[Site "New York"]
[Date "2004.07.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Norowitz, Yaacov"]
[Black "Miton, Kamil"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A48"]
[BlackElo "2597"]
[PlyCount "122"]
[EventDate "2004.07.13"]
[EventType "swiss (rapid)"]
[EventRounds "4"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2004.09.01"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. Be2 O-O 5. b3 c5 6. Bb2 cxd4 7. Nxd4 d6 8. O-O
Nbd7 9. c4 Nc5 10. Nc3 Bd7 11. Qd2 a6 12. Rac1 Qb6 13. Bf3 Bc6 14. Nxc6 bxc6
15. Rb1 a5 16. Ba1 Rab8 17. Qc2 Nfd7 18. Rfc1 Rfc8 19. Bg4 e6 20. e4 h5 21. Be2
e5 22. Qd2 Qc7 23. Rd1 Bf8 24. f4 exf4 25. Qxf4 Ne5 26. Rf1 Bg7 27. Bd1 Ne6 28.
Qg3 Qe7 29. Kh1 Nxc4 30. Qf2 Ne5 31. h3 Qc7 32. Bc2 Qb6 33. Qd2 Rd8 34. Na4 Qc7
35. Bc3 Ra8 36. Rbd1 d5 37. exd5 cxd5 38. Qf2 d4 39. Bb2 Rac8 40. Bb1 Rd7 41.
Rc1 Nc6 42. Be4 Ned8 43. Rc4 Re7 44. Bd5 Qd6 45. Bf3 Rcc7 46. Rd1 Ne6 47. Ba1
Ne5 48. Rxc7 Rxc7 49. Nb2 Rd7 50. Be4 Nc5 51. Bf3 Qe6 52. Be2 Ne4 53. Qe1 Nc3
54. Rd2 Nxa2 55. Bc4 Qe7 56. Na4 Nxc4 57. Qxe7 Rxe7 58. Rxa2 Re1+ 59. Kh2 Ne3
60. Nc5 Be5+ 61. g3 h4 0-1

[Event "World op 32nd"]
[Site "Philadelphia"]
[Date "2004.07.01"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Norowitz, Yaacov"]
[Black "Ivanov, Alexander"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A40"]
[BlackElo "2565"]
[PlyCount "49"]
[EventDate "2004.07.01"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2004.09.01"]

1. d4 g6 2. Nf3 Bg7 3. e3 d6 4. b3 Nd7 5. Bb2 e5 6. c4 e4 7. Nfd2 f5 8. f3 exf3
9. Qxf3 Ne7 10. g3 O-O 11. Bg2 Nf6 12. O-O c6 13. Nc3 d5 14. Ba3 Be6 15. Qf4
Re8 16. Qd6 Bf7 17. Qxd8 Raxd8 18. Rfe1 Ng4 19. Kh1 dxc4 20. Nxc4 Bxc4 21. bxc4
Nc8 22. Rab1 Rxe3 23. Rxe3 Nxe3 24. Rxb7 Nxc4 25. Bc1 0-1

So after reading Norowitz's analysis at the Kenilworth Chess Club website; and reviewing the other anti-KID threads - what is the issue with Norowitz's B/b2 idea that has lead to the development of other (more 'un C-Z like') lines against the KID?

I can see that aiming to swap off dark Bishops via the a1-h8 diagonal (rather than via [f4]-h6-g7) might be problematic if the game remains closed - but I didn't think KID games tended to lead to that type of play...

In summary, is this type of line viable?
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Be2 O-O 5. b3 d6 6. Bb2 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. dxe5

Perhaps 7. c4 would be better before the fireworks being?

I rarely come up against a K-side fianchetto in the games I play, so I don't have a good feel for evaluating these types of positions.

Thanks.
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02-03-2010, 02:42 AM
Post: #12
RE: Setup vs ...g6 (KID or Grunfeld)
(02-03-2010 02:05 AM)lucioperca Wrote:  So after reading Norowitz's analysis at the Kenilworth Chess Club website; and reviewing the other anti-KID threads - what is the issue with Norowitz's B/b2 idea that has lead to the development of other (more 'un C-Z like') lines against the KID?

I can see that aiming to swap off dark Bishops via the a1-h8 diagonal (rather than via [f4]-h6-g7) might be problematic if the game remains closed - but I didn't think KID games tended to lead to that type of play...

In summary, is this type of line viable?
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Be2 O-O 5. b3 d6 6. Bb2 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. dxe5

Perhaps 7. c4 would be better before the fireworks being?

I rarely come up against a K-side fianchetto in the games I play, so I don't have a good feel for evaluating these types of positions.

Thanks.

I must admit that I have not read Norowitz's analysis, but it seems that if Black plays an early ...c5 he just gets White stuck in a weird Benoni. In particular, I don't like

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Be2 0-0 5.b3 c5! 6.Bb2 cxd4 7.Nxd4 d5 8.0-0 Re8, with ...e5 next.

This matches the Kamsky game except he went for 8...Qc7 instead. [Keep in mind that was rapid-play...]
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02-03-2010, 04:20 AM
Post: #13
RE: Setup vs ...g6 (KID or Grunfeld)
Okay, I see now. Yes, ..c5 does change the look of things....

By the way, here is the link to Norowitz's analysis: http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games...ecture.htm

and here is a segment of that analysis pertaining to his Anti-KID:

The Anti-KID Zukertort System
Yaacov Norowitz - Analysis [E60]
Yaacov Norowitz Lecture Notes/Kenilworth, NJ USA 2006

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 3. Nf3

Yaacov mentioned that he switched to this system against KID formations after losing a game to GM Dzindzindashvili with 3. f4?! Bg7 4. Bd3 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. O-O Nbd7 7. Nbd2 (7. e4 e5 8. fxe5 dxe5 9. c3 c5) 7... e5! 8. fxe5 dxe5 9. dxe5 (9. c3 c5) 9... Ng4 , however NM Mark Kernighan pointed out that White is not really busted here after 10. e6! Nxe3!? (10... fxe6 11. Qe1=) 11. Qe2!! Nxf1 12. e7 Nxd2 13. exd8=Q (13. Bxd2!?) 13... Nxf3+ 14. Qxf3 Rxd8

3... Bg7 4. Be2

More flexible than 4. Bd3

4... O-O 5. b3!

The key concept of Yaacov's Zukertort system against the KID is that the dark-squared Bishops are likely to be exchanged at some point along the long-diagonal, creating serious weaknesses in Black's kingside. Though he does not get to play his favorite Stonewall formation, the game still revolves around the dark squares.

5... d6 6. Bb2 Nbd7

7. O-O e5!?

a) 7... c5!? has the advantage of keeping a pawn at e7 to defend the potentially weak f6 square.
b) 7... Re8?! 8. c4 e5 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. Nxe5! Nxe5 11. Qxd8 Rxd8 12. Bxe5

8. dxe5 Ng4 9. c4 Ngxe5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5?!

10... dxe5! makes it harder to exchange the Bishops, though it leaves Black with a less dynamic position.

11. Qd2! The Queen goes to a dark square in keeping with the theme.


I think it's worth remembering that Norowitz is a Stonewall (rather than a C-Z) practitioner. He may well evaluate positions slightly differently based on his Stonewall outlook.

Thanks for the feedback.
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