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New Idea against ...g6!!
01-17-2009, 08:48 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2009 08:50 PM by Glenn_Snow.)
Post: #11
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
DukeZuke Wrote:Hi people,

I'm from Barcelona, 2050 fide, and i've been following Summerscale's repertoire book, from 4 years till now, but playing the Colle-Koltanolwsky, not the Zukertort.

I have won many games with the typical rook lift on the forth rank, some sacs con h7 and in the typical Colle queen's side majority ending. I added to my library the terrific work by Mr. Bronznik.

I used the Barry-150 Attacks ideas in OTB, even as black, playing against some reti systems. It might sound strange but it works.

I have read here that the Barry is not a good weapon (I like very much the Sneaky Grunfeld Idea by Rudel's) but I will tell you someting: White is no worse in each variation. It has been played by people like: Lasker, Capablanca, Marshall, Torre, Alekhine, Tartakower, Pirc, etc..., and, obviously, by our fetiche player Mark Hebden. If this opening is good enough for him, what do you think for most of us?

The underlying idea in playing this 'simple' systems is to get more time to work on other parts of the game, and this is where we should put our efforts: Tactics, Basic endings, Thought Process and Strategy.

I will continue using 150-Barry attacks and I will add the Sneaky Grunfeld option to my arsenal and in some time the CK. I hope to contribute in this forum.

My own personal opinion is that although White isn't worse with the Barry attack, it is hard to fight for an advantage. That doesn't make it a bad weapon for the average player (like myself) of course and it might be better than I think. My sources of info since Summerscale are Prie on chesspublishing.com and from Palliser's new book "starting out: d-pawn attacks".
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08-31-2009, 01:36 AM
Post: #12
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
bkahuna Wrote:Glenn- I agree that with Gallagher, the c5 idea is better than e5. This is the reason I do not play as Dave proposes against the KID. Looking at the data bases again, Black is performing well with c5.

Dave- Another challenge for you.

Best- John

Okay, I'm ready to take this idea on now...other than Gallagher's book, can anyone recommend where I would find current theory on these lines, especially ...c5
?
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08-31-2009, 02:06 AM
Post: #13
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
I did some searching using the "Search inside the book" feature...and it does not appear Gallagher treats anything that does not involve an early e4 by White.
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09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Post: #14
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
The Jeroen Opening Book that was developed for Rybka 3 has both c5 and e5 as choices. c5 has a valuation of +0.26 for white and e5 gets a +0.15. The continuation for c5 comes from a game but I could not locate the reference.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. c4 O-O 5. Be2 d6 6. Nc3 Nbd7 7. O-O c5 8. Qc2 b6 9. Bd2 Bb7 10. d5 e5 11. e4 Nh5 12. Ne1 Nf4 13. Bd1 Nf6 14. Bxf4 exf4 15. Nd3 g5 16. h4 h6 17. hxg5 hxg5 18. Re1 Nd7 19. Bg4 Ne5 20. Nxe5 Bxe5 21. Red1 Kg7 22. Rd3 Rh8 23. Bf5 Rh4 24. a3 g4 25. Rad1 Qg5 26. Kf1 Rh2 27. Ke2 Rxg2

the other line goes 7. ... e5 8. e4 c6 and then shows multiple move choices after that Be3 (+.15), dxe5 (+.15)

Rudel Wrote:Okay, I'm ready to take this idea on now...other than Gallagher's book, can anyone recommend where I would find current theory on these lines, especially ...c5
?
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11-29-2009, 04:25 PM
Post: #15
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
In his DVD, 1... e6: A SOLID REPERTOIRE AGAINST 1.d4 and 1.e4, Nigel Davies' recomendation against the Colle is 3... g6.

1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 - Playing both ... e6 and ... g6 creates a dark-square weakness on Black's kingside, but Davies argues that since White has played 3.e3 he won't be able to exploit it because his c1-bishop is locked in.

He gives this game:

Vorobyov (2247) - Drenchev (2450)
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 g6 4.Bd3 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.e4 d6 7.c3 (Here Davies recommends 7... b6 followed by ... c5 and says Black is playing a good line in the Modern Defense. Rybka gives 7... b6 8.Bg5 h6 9.Be3 c5 as equal.) 7... Nc6 8.Nbd2 (Slightly inaccurate, 8.Be3 e5 9.d5 Nb8 10.h3 Nbd7 [+0.30]) 8... e5 9.dxe5 dxe5 (Rybka says it's equal)10.Nc4 Nh5 11.Bg5 f6 12.Be3 Be6 13.g3 Rf7 14.Be2 Rd7 15.Qc2 Bf8 16.Rfd1 Ng7 17.Rxd7 Qxd7 18.Rd1 Qf7 19.b3 Ne8 20.Kg2 a6 21.h3 Kh8 22.Rd2 Nd6 23.Nxd6 cxd6 24.c4 Qd7 25.h4 Rc8 26.Qb2 Qg7 27.Rd1 Be7 28.Nd2 f5 29.Bf3 Rf8 30.Nb1 f4 31.Bb6 h5 32.Nc3 Rf7 33.Qd2 Qf8 34.Qd3 Nb4 35.Qe2 fxg3 36.fxg3 Nxa2 37.Qxa2 Rxf3 38.Qd2 Bg4 39.Rb1 g5 40.Nd5 gxh4 41.Nxe7 Rxg3+ 42.Kh2 Rh3+ 43.Kg1 Rg3+ 44.Kh2 Qxe7 45.Qh6+ Kg8 46.Rf1 Rh3+ 47.Kg2 Qg7 0-1

The opening was equal and Black won because he was the stronger player.

My personal belief is that at the amateur level the concepts of slight advantage and equality are meaningless, because over the course of the game the advantage will be volleyed back and forth a half dozen times before someone blunders and loses.

I think Jeremy Silman has it right whens he says the goal of the opening is to give yourself something to work with. The question is, what does White have to work with after 3.. g6?
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11-30-2009, 04:19 AM
Post: #16
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
This brings up the "Swiss cheese" question again. I had asked whether this type of play [where Black has played both e6 and g6] was worth fretting over...the idea being that it is in some sense quite obviously unnatural yet perhaps not as easy to exploit as some other defenses.

With regard to Davies' particular defense, it seems awfully brave to take this kind of gamble before knowing which Colle System White wants to play. After all, as the game quoted shows, White's Bishop is not going to be blocked in forever. It was freed three moves later!
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11-30-2009, 05:30 AM (This post was last modified: 11-30-2009 05:34 AM by Rookpawn.)
Post: #17
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
Thrown in the water for your consideration. (To see if it sinks! Smile)

1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6

Black wants to throw a curve to the Colle player so I propose that its up to Black to prove his strategy as sound. (I see Mr Rudel has posted and I agree with his assessment!) Granted, for white its probably one of those situations where we have to leave the Colle proper and play something different. I want to play natural moves, so lets see what happens.

4.Bd3 Bg7 5.O-O O-O

Keeping in the vane of natural moves we've all been used during our entire chess career whats wrong with 6.e4!?


6. e4 d6

If we're playing our standard Kings Indian opponent, ... d6 is played with the idea of e5 or c5. Lets play simple chess....

7.Nc3

Not that its any better than Re1, Qe2


7... Nbd7 8.Bf4

Development and eyeing e5 and h6.

Its upto Black to find something here. If he should continue in Kings Indian fashion....

8...e5 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.Nxe5 Nxe4 11.Bxe4 Bxe5 12.Bxe5 Nxe5 13.Qxd8 Rxd8 14.Rad1 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 c6 *

White has a slight advantage here.
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09-05-2010, 12:02 AM
Post: #18
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
(08-31-2009 02:06 AM)Rudel Wrote:  I did some searching using the "Search inside the book" feature...and it does not appear Gallagher treats anything that does not involve an early e4 by White.

I looked at the table of contents of Gallagher's Beating the Anti-King's Indians and couldn't find it there either, so I'm not sure what I was thinking about. I still feel fairly certain that at one time I did see it recommended for Black. I know this isn't what I was remembering but Dembo in her Fighting the Anti-Kings Indians, recommends 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Be2 c5. This might transpose after 4.c4 0-0 5.Be2 c5.
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02-25-2011, 04:06 AM
Post: #19
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
would it be wise to just advance the d-pawn to 7. ... e5, and refuse the pawn exchange instead of Qc2?
my explorations lead to white getting boxed up when black responds with ...e4! forcing the white knight to wrest potential control of the crucial e5.

If white opts to exchange knights however, it can lead to an open game and a good position for black with an exchange trap in exchange for a good f5-g5 position... white could be thinking one piece ahead and yet

9. Nd2 Ne5 10. Qc2 Bf5 11.Ndxe4 Bxe4 12.Nxe4 Nxe4 13.Qxe4 f5

Is this ok... or did I miss something?
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02-28-2011, 04:16 PM
Post: #20
RE: New Idea against ...g6!!
parirami,

I'm a little confused by your question. Are you suggesting White play 8.d5 instead of 8.Qc2 ?
Is there a reason you don't want to play 8.Qc2, which stops the ...e4 you are concerned about?
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